Top 20 Graduate Geography Programs in the U.S.
2013 Rankings are now available!
I love lists and, especially, ranked lists. Even though I never seriously considered going to medical school or engineering school I was always very interested to find out which programs were ranked at the top. I routinely read the US News & World Report annual rankings of top colleges and graduate programs and I’ve since followed the Wall Street Journal and Economist MBA rankings. When I became interested in pursuing a graduate degree in geography, I was disappointed to find that there were no publications that ranked graduate geography programs. So, I’ve decided to create my own rankings and post them here.
The only available basis for developing rankings of graduate geography programs (that I’m aware of – please comment if you can suggest another good source) comes from the U.S. National Research Council’s survey of doctoral programs. Although some have been critical of the methodology used to develop the rankings, this is as good as it gets for small disciplines like geography. [If you don't like the rankings below, take my survey and let your opinion be counted!]
Unfortunately, because these rankings were produced by academic types who are masters of creating difficult-to-understand prose for publication in peer review journals, you almost need a PhD to interpret their rankings. So, I’ve tried to clarify these rankings by simply aggregating them together to form a single ranking. So, without further ado, here are my top 20 geography programs in the United States:
| Rank | Program | Website |
|
1 |
Boston University | http://geography.bu.edu/ |
|
2 |
University of Colorado at Boulder | http://www.colorado.edu/geography/ |
|
3 |
University of Maryland College Park | http://www.geog.umd.edu/ |
|
4 |
University of California – Los Angeles | http://www.geog.ucla.edu/ |
|
5 |
Penn State University | http://www.geog.psu.edu/grad/ |
|
6 |
University of Oregon | http://geography.uoregon.edu/ |
|
7 |
Clark University | http://www.clarku.edu/departments/geography/ |
|
8 |
University of South Carolina – Columbia | http://www.cas.sc.edu/geog/ |
|
9 |
University of California – Santa Barbara | http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/ |
|
10 |
University of Wisconsin – Madison | http://www.geography.wisc.edu |
|
11 |
Ohio State University | http://www.geography.ohio-state.edu/ |
|
12 |
Arizona State University | http://geography.asu.edu/ |
|
13 |
University of California – Davis | http://ggg.ucdavis.edu |
|
14 |
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | http://www.geog.uiuc.edu |
|
15 |
University of Kentucky | http://www.uky.edu/AS/Geography/ |
|
16 |
University of Southern California | http://www.usc.edu/dept/geography/ |
|
17 |
University of Arizona | http://geog.arizona.edu |
|
18 |
Oregon State University | http://www.geo.oregonstate.edu |
|
19 |
Syracuse University | http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/geo |
|
20 |
State University of New York at Buffalo | http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/ |
Warning to prospective graduate students, selecting a graduate program is an individual decision and the top programs listed here may not be the best program for you. There are many factors to take into consideration and this decision process is probably worthy of its own blog post, or a series of several blog posts. At the very least, you should take a look at a recent copy of the AAG’s Guide to Geography Programs.
As I said, my methodology was very simple. I summed the rankings from each of the categories where rankings were provided. The ranked categories include R Rankings 5th percentile, R Rankings 95th percentile, S Rankings 5th percentile, S Rankings 95th percentile, Research Activity 5th percentile, Research Activity 95th percentile, Student Support and Outcomes 5th percentile, Student Support and Outcomes 95th percentile, Diversity 5th percentile and Diversity 95th percentile. The program with the lowest sum was ranked first and the program with the highest sum was ranked last. I used the S Rankings 5th percentile as a tie-breaker.
Full disclosure: I hold a PhD from the University of Oregon’s Department of Geography. I tried to select a methodology that would prevent my bias from having an impact on the rankings but it’s probably impossible for me to avoid some bias in hopes of benefiting the good people associated with Oregon Geography. Go Ducks!
About the Author (Author Profile)
Justin Holman is CEO of TerraSeer, where he leads efforts to develop cutting edge sales forecasting and inventory optimization technology for the Automotive Aftermarket. Prior to joining TerraSeer, Justin managed corporate consulting for the Strategy & Analytics division at MapInfo Corporation, leading major projects for retail clients including The Home Depot, Darden Restaurants, Bridgestone-Firestone, Sainsbury’s and New York & Company. Before that, Justin served as Vice President of Software Development at LogicTools, now part of IBM's supply chain application software group. Justin holds a B.A. from Claremont McKenna College, a Ph.D. from the University of Oregon and an Executive Management certificate from Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management.Subscribe
If you enjoyed this article, subscribe to receive more just like it.
Comments (61)
Trackback URL | Comments RSS Feed
Sites That Link to this Post
- Big Changes in Geography Department Rankings « Geographical Perspectives | February 26, 2012
- Survey: What are the Top Geography Departments in the US? « Geographical Perspectives | March 6, 2012
- Top Geography Departments – Preliminary Survey Results « Geographical Perspectives | March 15, 2012
- Top Geography Departments – Preliminary Survey Results | Geographical Perspectives | March 28, 2012
- 2013 Geography Graduate Program Rankings | Geographical Perspectives | March 18, 2013
One advantage of a smaller discipline such as geography is that we do not have to depend on such mechanistic manipulations to decide what are the better graduate programs for a particular student. Your criteria are unclear (why 5th and 95th percentiles, too?). But more importantly a student should decide on a program of study based on shared philosophies (in how to approach the study of geography), environmental compatibility with the student’s quality-of-life preferences preferences (e.g., urban vs. college town), alignment with research interests of one or more professors (who also is willing to advise and mentor the student), overall reputation of the university (as this image will clue those outside of geography how to regard your degree), and other criteria, depending on what is important to the student. My advice would be to pick a graduate program with the advice of your professors from your undergrad university and to visit the graduate programs before or during the application process to get a feel for the reality of the department, which can never be boiled down to mere statistics.
Steven – Thank you for the comment. I mostly agree with your approach to selecting a good grad program. There are a lot of variables to consider. For example, if you’re ultimately after a PhD then nothing is more important than your dissertation advisor and the program is less important than the individual. However, it is important to some people to know how different departments stack up against one another. As the blog post mentions, the criteria are those selected by the NRC – as to why the 5th and 95th percentile you’ll have to take that up with them. I suspect some statistics nerd was on the committee and felt the need to show off. All I’ve done is summed up their different measures and compiled a single ranking. When I was a clueless 23-yr old trying to figure out where to go to grad school I would have been very happy to know something, *anything* about how various departments stack up. I suspect there are others that feel the same way. Remember, the majority of college students don’t even have access to a geography department at their own undergrad institution. There needs to be some “mechanistic manipulation” to help introduce potential geographers to key programs within the discipline. If you ask them to go read Johnston to figure out what philosophy they subscribe to they’ll skip past geography and become economists or geologists instead. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Cheers, J.
Hi Justin,
I have a question to ask you as I saw ur profile through one of the Geospatial study. I am a B.E in Civil Engineering and want to know which career path will be best for me- either as a GIS analyst or GIS developer? I am very much confused.Just to let u knw, I dont have any training at all in any of computer programming language.
Vikash, this is a difficult question to answer without more information. Have you read my blog posts on these two career paths?
http://www.justinholman.com/2012/03/31/geospatial-analyst-curriculum-guide/
http://www.justinholman.com/2012/03/29/spatial-career-guide-5-key-skills-for-future-gis-software-developers/
Once you’ve read these two, let me know which one sounds better. Also, are you good at math and statistics? If so, you might also consider becoming a “data scientist” and following the suggestions in one of these two posts:
http://www.justinholman.com/2012/04/26/spatial-career-guide-spatial-statistician/
http://www.justinholman.com/2012/04/10/spatial-career-guide-geographic-information-scientist/
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have more specific follow up questions.
Best wishes, Justin
I think the University of South Florida in Tampa/St. Pete should have been one of the top 20…regardless of the stats.
Hi Susan – why should U South Florida make the cut? I’d love to see you make your case here. Thanks for the comment!
Greetings from a 2005 Ph.D. grad and current academic at a regional public university in MD.
My remarks here are framed by my positionality as a human geographer, but it seems to me that main issue here is the questionable focus on high dollar research grants, which inevitably favor departments heavy in physical and environmental expertise. This is the disease of trying to quantify everything and then declaring the quantified results as “scientific” and therefore above reproach. Alas, the social world is more complex than that…and our task here is to consider the full range of factors that make a department a great place to pursue geographical knowledge and confidently take a degree from that institution to march out into academe..likewise, the perception that matters-a murky and difficult notion to be sure-is BALANCE.
In the broader field, I can say unquivocally the Boston University and UMD College Park are not regarded as top ten geography departments. Being great in one section of the discipline-however lucrative- is not enough. Consequently, Wisconsin, UCLA and Ohio State are very highly regarded by hiring committees (I have served on three of these in the last few years). CLark is also considered first-rate, and Texas (Austin) and Colorado enjoy a good level of prestige (another concept hard to quantify!).
Where is U Washington and UC Berkeley?! These storied and balanced departments are superb and much better than SC, MD, BU. I find the East Coast emphasis a bit bizarre here, as the biggest and most well-endowed Geog. depts. tend to be in the Midwest, Southwest-Intermontaine and Pacific regions.
For the record, I would put WISC, Berkeley and Clark as in top five, with the order variable by individual preference. Washington and Ohio State should also rank high. SUNY Binghamton, Buffalo, OKla and Okla State are excellent 10-20 rank choices. Arizona State is also very strong in both environ. and human-social geog.
As for advice, find a smart and emotionally mature advisor who will take an interest in you, be willing to work with you, WHO ACTUALLY WANTS YOU TO FINISH THE DEGREE AND NOT USE YOU, and who works in a department where your research methods are respected and honored (this is especially vital for those of you who pursue qualitative research methods in human geography).
I think your advice to look at individual advisors and compatibility (personal and professional) is vital…I agree with this. But well-rounded departments are better than technocratic ones. In short, an ethnographic methodology should be used to complement rigid paradigms of grant winning, which narrowly focused but big Depts. like UMD seem to thrive upon…
Happy Hunting to my future colleagues in professional geography.
Best
Jim Smith,
Ph.D. 2005
Kent State U. Dept. of Geography
Current: Associate Prof. Dept. of Geog. Towson Univ. (MD).
Jim – thank you for taking time to share your thoughts. I’m not sure we would see eye-to-eye on everything regarding quantification, “scientific” branches of geography and what constitutes balance in a department but I do agree with you that the NRC rankings represent just one perspective and shouldn’t constitute the final word. If and when I can find time, I’d like to conduct a separate survey to get a different perspective and set of rankings. My goal with all of this is to provide some useful information for prospective geography graduate students and I think your comments add significant value to the discussion. Thanks again!
I didn’t even know Oregon had a geography program.
Go Beavs!
I guess with the merger of geography at Oregon State into the Geosciences Department, I have little room to tease…..
Interesting list. Kind of expected SUNY and Penn State (and of course OSU) to be higher.
Steve, thanks for the comment! All I can say is that 2 decades of government work must have taken a toll.
Check my new survey and you can move SUNY, Penn State and Beaver State up on the list:
http://justinholman.com/2012/03/06/survey-what-are-the-top-geography-departments-in-the-us/
Cheers! -J.
Nearly three decades of government work was taken most of what little sanity I started out with. I looked at your new survey, but didn’t feel I really new enough about the programs across the country anymore to provide more than a populartity contest biased by my feeling about the schools sports teams. We both know where Oregon and Oregon State would end up there.
Actually I can’t imagine any job better than my position as a geospatial liaison with USGS. I get to work closely with the GIS community across two states, plus have at least some involvement with the research acitivites at four USGS Science Centers. Hopefully the ride will continue.
Steve – your USGS gig does indeed sound like a good one. Having been a USGS employee for a brief stretch I know that you probably have to wade through a lot of bureaucracy to get things done. Keep up the good fight! Best wishes, J.
I was surprise in seen Oregon State University on the 18th place I think it should be higher
Yuritzy, thank you for your comments. Can you make a case for Oregon State? Why should the program be ranked higher?
Justin, Yuritzy is an award-winning student in our Oregon State program, so it was nice to see her post. If you’d like a full case for Oregon State, you can see on at http://dusk.geo.orst.edu/Pickup/OrSt_Program_CV.pdf . Thanks again for this effort!
Dawn, thank you for posting this link to the Oregon State Geography “Programmatic CV”. Very impressive indeed!
Hello, I would like to see all of the U.S. graduate geography programs ranked, or at least the top 100. I am curious to the ranking of Texas State University (one of the largest geography programs in the nation), the University of Texas at Austin, and the University of Texas at Dallas (M.S. & PhD degree there is Geospatial Information Science rather than Geography).
I’d love to see that too. My current rankings are based on the NRC review. I also have a survey but not many responses. I’ll work on it and see what I can do. In the meantime, please take my survey to share your thoughts:
http://www.justinholman.com/2012/03/06/survey-what-are-the-top-geography-departments-in-the-us/
Justin,
I am looking to attend graduate school to try to branch out from my current position as a Sr. GIS Analyst at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois. They recently notified me that they would pay for my continuing education but the problem is I have no idea which of these schools offer online programs for geography (which seems to be limited unless it is for GIS). I am looking to get a Master’s in Geography or something else that would build on my Bachelors degree in Geography and my minor in Environmental Science. Over the years, I have come to the realization that GIS is a merely a tool and the work in our division has not allowed growth in the analytical aspect. Our work has remained more about the technical aspects and map production rather than building upon our overall skill sets. What do you suggest in terms of programs in the Chicago area or online programs nationwide that may point me in the right direction? My online searches have come up mostly empty and it seems any of the better programs would require me to leave the state and my job to pursue them. It would be nice if there were guidance counselors later in life that could help us with this research like there were when looking at colleges during high school(although I suppose there are life coaches out there)! Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
Hi Thomas – it’s terrific that your employer has agreed to pay for continuing education. I can try to make some suggestions but it would help tremendously if you could indicate what you’re *most* interested in studying. Don’t think about what would help your career; focus on what you’d enjoy. Thanks, Justin
Hi Thomas – you should post to the AAG LinkedIn group, it’s pretty active. However, I second Justin’s advice: find something you want to work on. Grad school is a TON of work and stress, but also can be the best time of your life. You are (or should be) pursuing something that intrigues you, and you’re encouraged from all sides to ask questions, think about what interests you, to push yourself, learn, and revel in knowledge. At least, that’s been my experience. I often say it’s like being 5 again – faculty and colleagues are always telling you your thoughts and interests are important and interesting. So find something you’re passionate about. Read some geography journals, revisit the things that excited you as an undergrad, and maybe google “online geography master’s.” Jim Smith makes some good points too – this is a BROAD field. You may find 5 schools that have amazing physical programs but really lack in the human, and vice versa. Anyone looking for a grad program needs to find the right fit, but I think because our discipline is particularly variable, well, honestly I think lists like this aren’t very useful. Maybe top 20 human/theoretical geog programs, top 20 physical might be more useful. But even then, you may find your perfect committee at a school that ranks at the “bottom” of all lists, but if they have the resources and knowledge and personalities that are the best fit for you, maybe that’s what you should go for. If you want to go for a PhD later, you might want a bigger name school? I don’t know this part of it, really, but my main point is only you can figure out what you want to study, what will be fascinating enough to pull you through the late nights, journal rejections, and other stresses. People can help you find information to help you make that decision, and help you find programs that fit, but we can’t make the initial choices for you. Sounds like you’re at the very beginning of your search. Good luck!
Hi Alanna – thanks for your suggestions for Thomas. I agree with everything you said other than “lists like this aren’t very useful”. If nothing else, this list is helping to facilitate a conversation about how to select a good geography program. Aside from that, I think rankings serve as a good starting point for people new to the discipline. Like it or not *perception* of program quality matters…quite a bit, in fact. It would be unfair to pretend that a Master’s degree in Geography from the University of South Florida will be held in the same regard as the same degree from UC Santa Barbara (or any one of the other programs on the list above). No disrespect meant toward U South Florida, a great university and probably a terrific geography program, but the faculty at UCSB happens to have some of the very top geographers in the world. Most organizations that hire geographers will be aware of the difference. Students entering these programs should be made aware of the same perceptions so they can go into the field with their eyes open.
Hi Justin,
Thank you for this article and all the comments. The replies are thought-provoking, insightful and useful to someone like me who wants to change careers but is unsure about returning to school. I’m curious about geography but have been out of the college environment for more than two decades and don’t have a clue how to evaluate an educational program, or even if I should pursue one.
I would like to know more about comments such as:
From Steven D: “a student should decide on a program of study based on shared philosophies (in how to approach the study of geography), environmental compatibility with the student’s quality-of-life preferences preferences (e.g., urban vs. college town), alignment with research interests of one or more professors (who also is willing to advise and mentor the student), overall reputation of the university (as this image will clue those outside of geography how to regard your degree), and other criteria, depending on what is important to the student.”
From Jim Smith: “consider the full range of factors that make a department a great place to pursue geographical knowledge … find a smart and emotionally mature advisor who will take an interest in you, be willing to work with you, WHO ACTUALLY WANTS YOU TO FINISH THE DEGREE AND NOT USE YOU, and who works in a department where your research methods are respected and honored (this is especially vital for those of you who pursue qualitative research methods in human geography).
I think your advice to look at individual advisors and compatibility (personal and professional) is vital”
From you/Justin: “indicate what you’re *most* interested in studying. Don’t think about what would help your career; focus on what you’d enjoy.” and also your entire response to Katy.
Is there some kind of fool-proof or systematic approach, before you enroll in a program, to find those shared philosophies, emotionally-mature and professionally-and-personally compatible advisors, enjoyable topics of study, etc. described by Steven and Jim? I would imagine advisors are busy people who don’t have time to be quizzed or courted by tire-kickers.
In my city, there seems to be a push to get professors, students and other evangelists out into the community to recruit for their schools and their programs. But how do you really know before you enroll that you’re not just getting a sales pitch or that the program is right for you? Are the professors and students obligated to go out and do this type of PR and marketing?
I need to know what to ask, whom to ask and how to find these people.
Is there a list of interview questions one should ask (and to whom) or some kind of matchmaking service, or is it all based on online searches, individual networking and personal judgment? I already have a 20-year-old B.A. (Art and English) but it never led me to either a job I loved or a livable wage. Consequently, ten years later I returned to school for advanced training. The second time around, I chased the money (got into software dev) and although it got me to a decent wage, the decision left me with an ill-fitting, high-stress and dissatisfying career.
I don’t want to give up on higher education because I had such a great time in undergrad school, but I don’t want to make another expensive mistake. How do I try before I buy?
Thanks for any further advice you can offer here. I feel rather silly asking such rudimentary questions, but as I stated in the beginning, I’m clueless.
Hi Pam – I’d be glad to try and help. But, before I respond, perhaps you could provide a few more details on your background, interests, ideas – what is your “vision” for your career change? That would enable me to provide appropriate context. Also, have you read my 6 spatial career paths series? If so, did you see one that is most appealing? Let me know. Thanks, Justin
In addition to the NRC survey of doctoral programs, another source of data is the Academic Analytics Faculty Scholarly Productivity Index, which is updated more regularly. An interesting aspect (deficiency?) of the NRC ranking is the fact that most of the data was collected in late Fall 2006 and Spring 2007 for the 2005-2006 academic year. While this is the most updated NRC information, the data is static and dated. For example, the University of Southern California’s geography program shows up in the NRC list and in your ranking, but the program itself does not exist anymore.
That being said, your blog entry and updates are very interesting and I will refer students here to get a better sense of how these sorts of lists “work”.
Hi Z – thanks for this comment and for the information regarding the scholarly productivity index and USC’s geography department. I see that USC’s department seems to have been replaced by a more technical Master’s degree and a “spatial” institute. Thanks again for reading and please let me know if you have any further suggestions. Best, Justin
Hello, I’m coming from outside the U.S., look for the PhD program in geographic information systems in America, I have no adequate language, will be joined a program for English language, I want to help me in the best universities in this area, what do you think the University of Cincinnati? sorry for the bad language .
thank u .
Hi Awatif – I’d be happy to try to help you but it may be a challenge given the language barrier. I don’t know much about the University of Cincinnati’s GIS program. The most important factor for a PhD program is the faculty advisor. Do you have a list of professors you’d like to work with? If not, that’s the best place to start. I will send an email directly to you with other ideas. Thanks and best of luck! -Justin
This information is invaluable. When can I find
out more?
What else are you looking for?
I’m an undergrad double majoring in economics and international trade at UB (University at Buffalo). This fall, the geo dept. made international trade a major…and a masters level degree. I’m pretty sure it’s the only program of its kind right now (I’ve tried looking for others without any success). The geo dept. at UB is absolutely fantastic. Hardcore research being done on earthquakes (we even have an earthquake lab where both geo and engineering students work together). UB can be underrated by its own students because, all being from mostly new York, don’t realize that it’s a fantastic university. I’m an out of stater…and the school has an international population of about 20-25%…which is large for a school that has 30,000 kids. I’m glad to see my department ranked very highly on this list (yeah it’s 20…but that still means we’re top 1% or higher in higher education)
David – congrats on finding yourself at an excellent University with one of the very best Departments of Geography in the US and the World. Thanks for the comment and best of luck! Cheers, Justin
I’m a junior right now studying geography at FSU. I tanked my GPA my first two years, but I’m really trying to turn it around. What do you think I could do to make up for this and hopefully have a shot at a program of this caliber? I’m not sure where to even start looking for internships that would be in this field.
Also, an earlier poster said they thought USF should be in the top 20, do you have any reason to agree?
Hi Katy – your GPA won’t dictate your future and it won’t prevent you from getting into a top geography program. But, you will need to really shine in some other way. I have 2 recommendations. (1) You *must* do well on the GRE. Plan to take it more than once. Plan to study a lot. Plan to take practice tests and, if you don’t get a great score on your own, pay for a course to help improve. (2) Find a professor at FSU who is willing to work with you and get involved in their research. Volunteer to do some data entry work or whatever to get started. Read the literature in the professor’s area of expertise. Try to do enough to justify getting your name on a paper or two as a co-author. This would certainly set you apart as an undergrad applying to a graduate program. It should also help you get a very solid letter of recommendation from the professor.
Even if you do everything you can you may not be able to attend a top program, for whatever reason. Don’t worry about it. You can get a great education and launch a successful career from programs that aren’t considered top tier. And, if you’re interested in a PhD you can improve your standing by doing solid work as a Master’s student and then apply to a top PhD program.
Re USF. I don’t really know much about the program. It may be a rising star and a future top program. However, I don’t think it would currently be considered a top 20 program by most people within the discipline. *But, that doesn’t matter* What matters is finding a great professor who can teach/mentor you so you’re ready to solve important problems and innovate once you graduate and begin your career. You can do that in many places. Best wishes! Let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. -J.
Thank you so much for your very informative response! I have a few questions if you don’t mind…
Testing happens to be an area that I can excel. What would you considering doing “well” on the GRE for a top program?
And I never thought of getting involved with a professor, that sounds like a great route!
Like you said, I will obviously face a lot of obstacles and may realistically not be eligible for top programs, do you know of any less competitive grad schools that may still have a great program?
Again thank you so much for all of your answers.
Hi Katy – I don’t really know what would be considered a good score. The format has changed since I took the test and what constitutes a good score will vary by program and applicant pool. The key with the GRE is to have a good enough score that you will make it past the first cut. An admissions committee has to review a lot of applications so they have to look for ways to limit the field. GRE scores are the easiest ranking criterion so a low score can remove you from the list of candidates that are given a more in-depth look. The flip side is that you don’t need the very top score, not that it would hurt, but you should be in the top third of the applicant pool or, with lower grades, you’ll be vulnerable.
Re less competitive grad schools. I think you’d probably be well served to talk to your professors and find out where they think you could gain admission. They will have a better handle on your chances. That said, I would consider the following 3-part strategy. (1) I would apply to several programs but only to research-oriented Universities that offer a PhD program. The reason to limit applications to research universities is because you are far more likely to find a professor with grant funds available to support graduate students. (2) I would look at Universities in locations that may not be as desirable to some applicants. UC Santa Barbara may be inundated with applicants who not only want to attend a top program but may also envision good times on the beach in Isla Vista. Same with U. Colorado, Washington, Boston, etc for different reasons (cool college town or urban environment). On the flip side, Buffalo also has an outstanding program but I would guess that the admission rate is higher because some people would shy away from the harsh winters. So, maybe focus on the upper Midwest, if you’re flexible? (3) As I’ve written elsewhere the number one key to grad school is identifying a great advisor who can serve as a research mentor. Your top priority should be finding the right advisor who has a vibrant research program. Ideally, your advisor would already be tenured (so you don’t have to worry about them being forced out or moving elsewhere before they go up for tenure review) but perhaps not yet a full Professor (so they’re still hungry and not globe trotting to give lectures and accept awards). Associate Professors are ideal, in my opinion.
If you pursue this diligently, and have a bit of luck along the way, I think you’ll land on your feet and find yourself with an exciting, satisfying career. But, you’ll need a lot of drive, both to get through a grad program and to land a position on a good career track after graduation. Again, check with your professors at FSU who have a better perspective on all this. Getting advice from an academic is particularly critical if you dream of a professor gig.
Hope this helps! Cheers, J.
Hi Justin,
Along with many others, I have enjoyed this post and following discussion. I have a bit of a different type of question. I am currently an undergraduate double-majoring in wildlife ecology and environmental studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I am an older returning student and as a result of necessarily working primarily for money during the summer/semesters I have little experience in my desired field of conservation.
After I graduate in May, I have been considering enrolling in the one-year GIS graduate capstone program here at UW to add value to my education. I feel that added skill will aid me in getting a job and differentiate me from those simply with an undergraduate degree and help to make-up for my lack of experience.
I am interested in obtaining a master’s, potentially a Phd at some point in geography, conservation biology, or environmental sciences, but I would prefer to see what is out there to find what is the best fit for my interests before taking that leap.
My idea is that this capstone will help me get into the field by obtaining a job out west (maybe Oregon), establish residency and my interests and move on from there. Do you feel this is a sound plan? Would a graduate-level capstone in GIS at UW be a significant upgrade to simply taking a couple classes in GIS during my undergrad to employers? Is it worth the extra time and cost? My GPA is quite good and I have a number of well-respected professors and a couple researchers willing to be references and give positive recommendations.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Hi Jesse. Thanks for reading and for submitting this question. I suspect there are many others facing similar situations. Based on what you’ve told me here I would advise against the capstone program. Instead, I would recommend two things: (1) apply for jobs/internships/opportunities to break into your desired field of conservation and (2) apply to standard 2-yr Master’s programs in Geography (or other disciplines) where funding may be available. Here’s why. First, if you want a job in conservation why not go straight for it? The most relevant learning, GIS and otherwise, will be on-the-job so that would be the best possible education and you would be getting paid. Second, the capstone is a non-degree program. If you’re thinking grad school and possibly a PhD, I think your year would be better spent pursuing a legitimate Master’s degree rather than a certificate. A Master’s would open more opportunities, allow you to pursue your interests in GIS and may allow you to pay your own way with a teaching or research assistantship. Working as a graduate assistant in an academic department is the preferred way to go about grad school. It’s actually a job where, although you’ll live on a shoestring, you won’t be going into debt and you’ll have the opportunity to interact with professors as a colleague instead of as a student. That’s where the real learning takes place. In the current environment, obtaining a good job offer and/or admission to a graduate program with funding may be a big challenge but I think those are better avenues to pursue. If neither one works out, then I still think that working in whatever job you can find (restaurant, coffee shop, etc or, better yet, an on-campus job in computer support or whatever) and pursuing self-study aggressively while searching for a good job in conservation or re-applying to grad school would be a better path. All this depends of course on some assumptions I’ve made about your financial situation and your stated career objectives. There are always more complicating details in any individual situation. Feel free to email me directly if you’d like to discuss further. Best of luck! -Justin
Hi Justin,
Thanks for this post. Really informative. I want to ask a direct question and I want a direct answer based on your opinion.
Which career path in geography is the most profitable (financial-wise, wages & salary) and what is the annual salary range?
Also what are the chances of getting a scholarship for a graduate program in a geography related program?
Thank you
Hi Jay. I enjoyed reading your question and I’ll do my best to provide a direct answer. All else being equal I think your best bet for a financially lucrative career in geography would be to pursue the spatial statistician path that I describe in this post: http://www.justinholman.com/2012/04/26/spatial-career-guide-spatial-statistician/. To maximize your earning potential I would suggest that you pursue geography and math or computer science as an undergrad – maybe a double major or major/minor combo and a Master’s degree in statistics where the program offers spatial statistics coursework at the grad level. And, of course, you should take coursework in GIS, programming and visualization. Coming out of the grad program I think you could reasonably expect a salary in the $50-60k range with opportunities to double that within 5-7 years after graduation if you’re good, hard-working and passionate about what you’re doing day-to-day. A bit of luck in finding a good organizational fit wouldn’t hurt. As with all private sector careers, long term earnings will depend more on your ability to work/communicate with people, to think like an entrepreneur and to negotiate compensation than on your technical abilities. Hope this helps! Best, Justin
Hi,
My name is Letícia, I am from Brazil and recently applied to the PhD in Geography at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. My GPA and TOEFL scores were very good, I have strong recommendation letters and a good CV. However, my GRE scores were not so great. Does anyone knows what is the minimum score to get in? Is that a determinant? Thanks in advance for your attention. Best.
Hi Leticia – a good GRE score is important but it’s not a good indicator for all applicants due to cultural bias. As an applicant coming from Brazil a good admissions committee should be able to recognize that the GRE won’t do a very good job of predicting how likely you are to be successful in graduate school. So, I don’t think a low score will hurt you too much. That said, I’ve heard from faculty I know in a few geography departments that it’s very competitive admissions climate at the moment. A large number of applicants are competing for only a few spots so you won’t be guaranteed admission even if you have a truly outstanding GRE score and everything else is in great shape as well. Plus, Wisconsin is one of the best geography programs in the world so it won’t be easy. If you don’t get in this year don’t give up! A good strategy could be to attend a smaller, less well-known program to obtain a Master’s degree and then re-apply. The key is to have a faculty advisor who is well-established in the geography community and who is willing to advocate for your admission to a top PhD program. Good luck!
Hi Justin! Thanks for your reply! I understand that this program is one of the best and its very competitive! I am very anxious about the results. I already have a masters degree obtained from a Brazilian University, so in that case I don´t know if it would be very productive for me to obtain a second one. However, it could be a strategy. What I am hoping is that the advisor I have indicated will defend my admission! It definitely won´t be easy! Best.
Leticia – I don’t really know how your Master’s from Brazil will be viewed by a PhD admissions committee. I think it will depend on the University and department you attended and your Master’s thesis (if you completed a research project). Are you planning to do research in Brazil or involving Brazilian culture or physical geography? This would likely be viewed favorably and give you an advantage, especially if there’s a professor in the Wisconsin program with interests in Brazil or South America. Again, best wishes! -Justin
Hi! I could have sworn I’ve been to this website before but after going through some of the articles I realized it’s new to me.
Anyhow, I’m certainly delighted I discovered it and I’ll
be book-marking it and checking back often!
Thanks, Porter!
Helpful information. Lucky me I discovered your website by accident, and
I’m stunned why this twist of fate did not came about earlier! I bookmarked it.
Glad you found me!
BU is my alma mater so it is nice to see them as #1 (they were #27 I think when I was there). But then why did BU drop the word “geography” from the name of the department? It is now Earth and Environment after merging with geology…
Hi David, My understanding is that they are more or less focused on the physical side of geography but I see on their website that they offer graduate programs in “Geographical Sciences” and undergraduate majors in human geography and physical geography, among others: http://www.bu.edu/earth/about/ Cheers, J.
This site is absolutely awesome because it gives information one never learns in class and one never gets from one of the career publications out there.
In my case I studied geography at the undergrad level and had a GIS certificate. I then “bumped” into the systems analyst line of work immediately upon graduation and because it paid well, I stuck with it. When my employer paid 100% of my graduate tuition, I had no choice but to pick a program more aligned with the work (Software Eng). This also meant I never worked a single day in anything to do with geography.
But I have always been dying to get back into Geography. What is the best way to reach you if one needed to ask a question with perhaps more details?
Dan, thanks for the feedback! Glad you like the site. Please follow me on twitter: @justinholman and then send a Direct Message. Or, you can send email to justin DOT holman AT gmail DOT com. Thanks again! -J.
Justin,
I am an undergraduate Geography student at Ohio University. This list seems to be a great reference tool as I apply for grad school. Ideally, I would like to live in Oregon or Washington. My GPA is currently a 3.2, I have about two semesters to improve it…. and I need funding from the university I attend. I understand that there are many different factors regarding admission. But I would love to know what you think my chances are of getting into U of O, Oregon State, or Washington. I’ve done quite a bit of research into the faculty members of each university and it looks like all three would be a great fit. Assuming that my GRE score is respectable… do you think a 3.2 GPA will qualify me for admission? Please let me know if you have any advice.
Steven, from what I can gather from my colleagues it is a very challenging time to gain admission to a good graduate program. This is primarily due to the huge number of applicants flooding many graduate programs. I know this is true at Oregon and I’m assuming it’s true at Oregon State and Washington as well. Your 3.2 GPA is not going to help you much but it shouldn’t preclude your chances of admission either. My advice is to (1) work hard to get an outstanding GRE score as this will help you float to the top of the long list of applicants; (2) work with one of your professors at Ohio U. on a research project and, ideally, get your name on a publication; and (3) know what you want to study and who you want to study with so you can craft a rock-solid personal statement articulating your plan for graduate study and why a particular program makes sense for you. To be honest, I doubt that Oregon, Oregon State and Washington would *all* be a good fit for any specific, well crafted research plan. I say this because Washington is really a different sort of geography program with a different approach and philosophy that isn’t terribly similar to what’s offered at Oregon and Oregon State. And I don’t mean to imply that any downside exists – all 3 are great universities with outstanding geography scholars – but I’d be a bit surprised if you have a research focus that is well represented in all 3 geography programs (unless you’re thinking of a different department at one or more of the schools). If you’d like, let me know what you’re interested in doing in grad school and beyond and I may be able to provide some more specific guidance.
Best wishes, Justin
You made some decent points there. I looked on the net to find out
more about the issue and found most individuals will go along with your views on this web site.
Thanks for the comment!